22 Comments
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Carlo Navato's avatar

Enjoyed this thank you. However, and accepting that he’s become a anti-semitic madman in recent years, it’s worth acknowledging the genius composer of all of this stuff was Roger Waters. I love DG - crossed the pond from London to pay homage to him at Madison Square Garden last year, and his guitar created the soundtrack to my life, but I’m not sure how much it could sing without Roger’s compositional skills

John Caswell's avatar

Yes of course and it's a very worthy question. You are completely correct.

The yin and yang i was riffing on explains the animosity that was the undercurrent for so much of their time as a band and the split.

So much great creativity in life comes from these struggles doesn't it. We clearly share the soundtrack and are privileged to have had the joy and pain of them both. Thanks for your note Carlo

Carlo Navato's avatar

Very good point. Tension and friction are essential for any forward progress. I’m a McGilchrist fan - he’s very good on this. And what he calls the coincidence of opposites - exactly your yin-yang point

John Caswell's avatar

Now, look what you've done. I did some digging and found gold. The result will be in my next post, but a sincere thank you for turning me onto McGilchrist, and it also reminded me just how much I have loved the work of Niels Bohr...

Carlo Navato's avatar

Thats what we’re here for John. Bohr - master! “Ah we have a paradox - now we can make some progress…"

Daniel Szuc's avatar

Yes its hard to imagine how such a creative genius like Roger Waters can also be such a deplorable human. Seems he has some deeper work to do. Dont we all?

John Caswell's avatar

Indeed, don't we all!! Well said.

John Philpin's avatar

Just seeing Daniel’s ‘deplorable ’ comment … two thoughts

1) freedom fighter v terrorist depends on context

2) anti people or anti actions .. the former is too often reported to support the preferred narrative .. and action ignored

3) when truths come out we often find bad things deeply hidden in otherwise good people

.. ok .. 3 thoughts 😉

John Caswell's avatar

Yeah i probably need to rabbit hole on points one and two. I genuinely don't want to meet my heroes but in this case i now have to make an exception. From my memory i remember him being very opaque on his actual position but will see what turns up.

John Philpin's avatar

We don’t want to meet our heroes? Weren’t you with me at that event with Dave and Nick … I still have the signed albums we left with .. though I never did get them framed like you suggested. Still on the ToDo list.

John Philpin's avatar

If proof were needed .. reviewing David’s catalogue post Final Cut .. and you find the music continues but the words lack a certain ‘je ne sais quoi’ .. with all respect to Polly .. meanwhile listening to Roger .. the story continues … a musician that has passion and a message that he constantly delivers. He continues on his journey. He wants to move forward … and tries to.. not always with greatest success witness La Cira and yet 12 years later at what 70 years old .. comes out with Is This The Life We Really Want and then 10 years after that to celebrate 50 years of DarkSide totally reimagines it .. not everyone’s cup of tea .. but seriously .. not a remix, an atmos a reforming but something totally reimagined.

To me the power of the combination is like nursery rhymes .. the music sucks you in and the lyrics become background.. and yet when you do listen .. holy crap! That tension that was mentioned above.

As for R’s anti semitism .. I will take questions off line 😎

John Caswell's avatar

Yes, this discussion is v. interesting and takes me back to the ‘never meet your heroes’ truism.

I've been such a fanboy i disregarded (chose not to rabbit hole) the politics, chose to surf the themes in the music.

You are quite right about the profundity of Waters words and relentless Dylanesque protest energy. That was what Gilmour echoed with beautiful anguish.

Carlo Navato on this thread pointed to McGilchrist’s coincidence of opposites which i am riffing on right now.

Agree also with your end point so much to further push the richness of this - hearing the words of songs sometimes five decades later reveals another series of gifts and explodes all over you with whole other level.

Still, Waters runs deep while Gilmours axe flies high.

Lorne's avatar

Brilliant article, John. It would make a wonderful documentary. I kept on envisioning your voice on top of the music with video clips from live concerts of his playing.

If there’s a single exquisite example of the tensions of playing in the space between, this is it!

Des Kennedy's avatar

Another great piece. I share your passion for all things Floyd and admire your ability to effortlessly draw parallels between worlds. Having also experienced your generosity of thought and willingness to help others. I'd just like to say... Shine on, John!  

John Caswell's avatar

That's very kind Des.

Daniel Szuc's avatar

Wonderful reading, thank you.

John Caswell's avatar

Thanks, Daniel, and yes, there's a lot going on down that dark hole. There's a line somewhere I can't quite remember, but it warns us against ever meeting our heroes... I'm certain to return to this topic.

Daniel Szuc's avatar

Continue the writing and lets evolve together from there. Thanks again.

Karen Rivoire's avatar

Beautiful combinations of tools and creative spaces that enable people to live freely without being monetised. Thanks @John

John Caswell's avatar

I hadn't heard of the Daniel Hulme work will take a look x

Karen Rivoire's avatar

Interesting point on the value of feelings and pain. Will #AI ever feel pain? See #RobbieStamp 's work on ai ethics clearly showing that without pain there is no accountability so the accountability lies with humans . More recently #DanielHulme 's work on consciousness, asking whether it is better to have zombie GenAi or ‘intelligent’ pain ‘feeling’ ai.

John Philpin's avatar

Worth is an odd word. The guitar is ‘worth’ $14.6 million because that was what somebody was prepared to pay for it. That was the cost. The financial cost. Not the worth.